Steve Orr Linda Dunbrack Framingham Not so free speech on Frambors

Every tax is a pay cut. Every tax cut is a pay raise.

Just because you're not interested in politics doesn't mean politics isn't interested in you.

No free Speech on Frambors

Steve Orr's mail server also runs the TMM (Town Meeting Members) mailing list.
Jim Rizoli and Joe Rizoli are both town meeting members but have been excluded from the list.
Free speech is not just what you hear, it's also what you do not hear.
Freedom of the press only belongs to those who own a press.

From steveo@syslang.net Sun Jul 4 18:26:50 2010 Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2010 18:26:47 -0400 From: "Steven W. Orr" To: "Harold J. Wolfe" CC: frambors-owner Subject: Open Meeting Law (fwd) Hi Harold, I really don't run frambors at all. Sometimes I'll let things through if they're no-brainers, but I don't reject anything. Linda does all of that. The exception is that I have banned the Rizolis from anything going on here because they have exhausted their privileges here after a huge amount of patience spanning years on my part. This is a private list and as such there is no such freedom of speech issue. So sayeth the king. People are not allowed to say anything they want to here. That freedom is for street corners on a soapbox. They did not do anything that "violates freedom of speech". What they did was to not remain germain to the topic of town government on frambors or to the topic of Framingham in general on framcom. After that, they used the man-bytes-man list to further the cause of Holocaust Denial, which frankly, I found to be the last straw. I will be considering opening up the TMM list for all to subscribe to with the condition that only town officials would be allowed to post. After that, I'll have to decide if I want to allow the Rizolis to be allowed to subscribe, but right now I see no reason to entertain them. And you asked about why this rule is just now coming to light. Well, sometimes we make it up as we go along, but in this case, I think I was pretty clear to everyone on why the Rizolis were banned by me from the lists. The idea of discarding all posts from you for a short period that contain links to things that Linda would have to check out for Rizoli related material sounds perfectly reasonable to me, especially after you allowed yourself to be shilled by them. There's a difference between you and the Rizolis that most people don't g et, but that I do: You're not an anti-semite, while they are. You have problems with the operation of the Israeli government policies while they just want to stir up hatred for all Jews. You should not make the same mistake they made by linguistically forgetting when to refer to immigrants versus illegal aliens, or the difference between Israeli government policies versus Jews. Either way, it's a stretch to think that the politics of the Israeli government are viable fodder for these lists. As I mentioned, your message is not rejected by me, but Linda will decide what to do with it when she gets a round tuit.
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Open Meeting Law Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2010 17:48:03 -0400 From: Harold J. Wolfe To: Frambors Concerning... http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/news/x2071997576/Local-officials-questi= on-scope-of-new-Open-Meeting-Law I find it humorous that Steve Orr, owner/operator of the frambors mailing list is complaining about freedom of speech issues after he has banned the Rizolis from posting on it, and banned them from the Town Meeting Members list even if they are both town meeting members. What did the Rizolis say or do that actually violate freedom of speech. Here is the text of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Has freedom of speech become so perverted that it really means "it's only speech that we want to hear, and not what you want to say". Of course, that makes it very regional. in the case of the Rizolis, if you were disgusted with the concept of Holocaust Denial, how do you feel about Evolution Denial? Let us discuss the very concept of "freedom of speech". Harold J. Wolfe, 65 Delmar Avenue, Framingham, MA 01701 http://www.abetterframingham.org http://www.no-more-overrides.org http://www.stoprichardson.org http://www.smocingham.org Time flies like the wind. Fruit flies like a banana. Stranger things have happened but none stranger than this. Does your driver's license say Organ Donor?Black holes are where God divided by zero. Listen to me! We are all individuals! What if this weren't a hypothetical question? steveo at syslang.net

From lindadunbrack@verizon.net Sun Jul 4 14:32:10 2010 To: Harold Wolfe , Moderating Team Subject: Links on Frambors Harold, Because I don't have the time and inclination to screen and review every web link you put on Frambors, and because you essentially functioned as a shill for the Rizolis, who have been banned from Frambors, I'm not putting through anything that contains a link to something other than a newspaper article or the Town website for the next 3 months. It just won't go through, and you'll know why. I've been burned a couple of times on this now, and I'm just not going to spend the time dealing with it. -- Linda Dunbrack "Even the smallest victory is never to be taken for granted. Each victory must be applauded, because it is so easy not to battle at all,to just accept and call that acceptance inevitable."--Audre Lorde, American poet and writer From lindadunbrack@verizon.net Sun Jul 4 19:31:56 2010 Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2010 19:32:26 -0400 From: Linda Dunbrack To: "Harold J. Wolfe" CC: frambors-owner Subject: Re: Open Meeting Law (fwd) Re: your post: Its a privately-owned list, there are no free speech rights on someone else's private property, and your post is not related to Town Government. Not going. Re: other message to me. I have told you on prior occasions that you were not to act as a proxy for the Rizolis. I can dig up the message from my sent folder. But I don't want to have to spend the time checking every link to see whether the content is appropriate for Frambors. -- Linda Dunbrack "Even the smallest victory is never to be taken for granted. Each victory must be applauded, because it is so easy not to battle at all,to just accept and call that acceptance inevitable."--Audre Lorde, American poet and writer

From rklv@rcn.com Sun Jul 4 20:47:10 2010 Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2010 20:47:10 -0400 From: Kathy Vassar To: lindadunbrack@verizon.net CC: "Harold J. Wolfe" , frambors-owner Subject: Re: Open Meeting Law (fwd) RE: But I don't want to have to spend the time checking every link to see whether the content is appropriate for Frambors. I agree with Linda's decision - spending her time playing detective isn't productive. We are all volunteers trying to keep this list going and stunts like your post don't make the job easier. The Moderators all have other obligations but playing detective isn't one that I rank in my top 10. All of us have many other things to do, in addition to keeping this list up and running. Kathy On 7/4/2010 7:32 PM, Linda Dunbrack wrote: > But I don't want to have to spend the time checking every link to > see whether the content is appropriate for Frambors.

No free Speech on Frambors
Steve Orr's mail server also runs the TMM (Town Meeting Members) mailing list. Jim Rizoli and Joe Rizoli are both town meeting members but have been excluded from the list. Free speech is not just what you hear, it's also what you do not hear. Freedom of the press only belongs to those who own a press.
From steveo@syslang.net Sun Jul 4 18:26:50 2010 Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2010 18:26:47 -0400 From: "Steven W. Orr" To: "Harold J. Wolfe" CC: frambors-owner Subject: Open Meeting Law (fwd) Hi Harold, I really don't run frambors at all. Sometimes I'll let things through if they're no-brainers, but I don't reject anything. Linda does all of that. The exception is that I have banned the Rizolis from anything going on here because they have exhausted their privileges here after a huge amount of patience spanning years on my part. This is a private list and as such there is no such freedom of speech issue. So sayeth the king. People are not allowed to say anything they want to here. That freedom is for street corners on a soapbox. They did not do anything that "violates freedom of speech". What they did was to not remain germain to the topic of town government on frambors or to the topic of Framingham in general on framcom. After that, they used the man-bytes-man list to further the cause of Holocaust Denial, which frankly, I found to be the last straw. I will be considering opening up the TMM list for all to subscribe to with the condition that only town officials would be allowed to post. After that, I'll have to decide if I want to allow the Rizolis to be allowed to subscribe, but right now I see no reason to entertain them. And you asked about why this rule is just now coming to light. Well, sometimes we make it up as we go along, but in this case, I think I was pretty clear to everyone on why the Rizolis were banned by me from the lists. The idea of discarding all posts from you for a short period that contain links to things that Linda would have to check out for Rizoli related material sounds perfectly reasonable to me, especially after you allowed yourself to be shilled by them. There's a difference between you and the Rizolis that most people don't g et, but that I do: You're not an anti-semite, while they are. You have problems with the operation of the Israeli government policies while they just want to stir up hatred for all Jews. You should not make the same mistake they made by linguistically forgetting when to refer to immigrants versus illegal aliens, or the difference between Israeli government policies versus Jews. Either way, it's a stretch to think that the politics of the Israeli government are viable fodder for these lists. As I mentioned, your message is not rejected by me, but Linda will decide what to do with it when she gets a round tuit. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Open Meeting Law Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2010 17:48:03 -0400 From: Harold J. Wolfe To: Frambors Concerning... http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/news/x2071997576/Local-officials-questi= on-scope-of-new-Open-Meeting-Law I find it humorous that Steve Orr, owner/operator of the frambors mailing list is complaining about freedom of speech issues after he has banned the Rizolis from posting on it, and banned them from the Town Meeting Members list even if they are both town meeting members. What did the Rizolis say or do that actually violate freedom of speech. Here is the text of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Has freedom of speech become so perverted that it really means "it's only speech that we want to hear, and not what you want to say". Of course, that makes it very regional. in the case of the Rizolis, if you were disgusted with the concept of Holocaust Denial, how do you feel about Evolution Denial? Let us discuss the very concept of "freedom of speech". Harold J. Wolfe, 65 Delmar Avenue, Framingham, MA 01701 http://www.abetterframingham.org http://www.no-more-overrides.org http://www.stoprichardson.org http://www.smocingham.org Time flies like the wind. Fruit flies like a banana. Stranger things have happened but none stranger than this. Does your driver's license say Organ Donor?Black holes are where God divided by zero. Listen to me! We are all individuals! What if this weren't a hypothetical question? steveo at syslang.net From lindadunbrack@verizon.net Sun Jul 4 14:32:10 2010 To: Harold Wolfe , Moderating Team Subject: Links on Frambors Harold, Because I don't have the time and inclination to screen and review every web link you put on Frambors, and because you essentially functioned as a shill for the Rizolis, who have been banned from Frambors, I'm not putting through anything that contains a link to something other than a newspaper article or the Town website for the next 3 months. It just won't go through, and you'll know why. I've been burned a couple of times on this now, and I'm just not going to spend the time dealing with it. -- Linda Dunbrack "Even the smallest victory is never to be taken for granted. Each victory must be applauded, because it is so easy not to battle at all,to just accept and call that acceptance inevitable."--Audre Lorde, American poet and writer From lindadunbrack@verizon.net Sun Jul 4 19:31:56 2010 Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2010 19:32:26 -0400 From: Linda Dunbrack To: "Harold J. Wolfe" CC: frambors-owner Subject: Re: Open Meeting Law (fwd) Re: your post: Its a privately-owned list, there are no free speech rights on someone else's private property, and your post is not related to Town Government. Not going. Re: other message to me. I have told you on prior occasions that you were not to act as a proxy for the Rizolis. I can dig up the message from my sent folder. But I don't want to have to spend the time checking every link to see whether the content is appropriate for Frambors. -- Linda Dunbrack "Even the smallest victory is never to be taken for granted. Each victory must be applauded, because it is so easy not to battle at all,to just accept and call that acceptance inevitable."--Audre Lorde, American poet and writer From rklv@rcn.com Sun Jul 4 20:47:10 2010 Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2010 20:47:10 -0400 From: Kathy Vassar To: lindadunbrack@verizon.net CC: "Harold J. Wolfe" , frambors-owner Subject: Re: Open Meeting Law (fwd) RE: But I don't want to have to spend the time checking every link to see whether the content is appropriate for Frambors. I agree with Linda's decision - spending her time playing detective isn't productive. We are all volunteers trying to keep this list going and stunts like your post don't make the job easier. The Moderators all have other obligations but playing detective isn't one that I rank in my top 10. All of us have many other things to do, in addition to keeping this list up and running. Kathy On 7/4/2010 7:32 PM, Linda Dunbrack wrote: > But I don't want to have to spend the time checking every link to > see whether the content is appropriate for Frambors.

Send comments to: hjw2001@gmail.com

	Every tax is a pay cut. Every tax cut is a pay raise.
Just because you're not interested in politics doesn't mean politics isn't interested in you.